E45: Teamwork, Part One | Anne Ogilvie | SWEET Center

Anne Ogilvie: You know, there's the old adage that many hands make light work, right? So we can get more work done together, but it's, it's much more than that. It's about how it feels to work together with other people towards a common goal.

Jon Cain: What if I told you you've just been assigned to work on a team project? What feeling comes to mind? Is it dread? Is it excitement? Is it confidence with a mix of anxiety? No matter how you feel, there's no way around it. You're going to have to work with other people a lot over the course of your life. So how can you make the most of teamwork, be a better teammate, and help your team work through problems if people aren't on the same page? We're exploring these questions and more on this episode of The WPI Podcast. Hi, I'm Jon Cain, and this is your home for news and expertise from the classrooms and labs of Worcester Polytechnic Institute. Our guest today helps WPI students improve their ability to collaborate effectively in teams. Anne Ogilvie is the director for team learning in The Global School at Worcester Polytechnic Institute. She leads WPI's SWEET Center on campus. SWEET's an acronym that stands for Supporting WPI through Effective and Equitable Teamwork. The center is a place where students can go to get guidance navigating teamwork. Anne, thanks for being on The WPI podcast. 

Anne Ogilvie: Thanks, Jon. Nice to be with you today. 

Cain: Anne, it's great to have you here for the first of what will be two episodes on teamwork, and in our next episode, we'll do a deep dive on one of the tools your center uses to help teams approach collaboration. It's a really great conversation with a PhD student who's a fellow in the SWEET Center. Uh, but for this episode, Anne, I wanna start by asking you why is learning how to be better at teamwork so important for anyone at any age or in any stage of their life? 

Ogilvie: Well, teamwork is a critical skill. It is necessary for us throughout our entire lives. It starts in our families. We are doing teamwork in our families. We do teamwork throughout our schooling, and then when we enter our careers, we're doing a ton of teamwork. Uh, we are rarely working on projects alone. We most often are collaborating with other people, and we know that the skills of teamwork are highly valued by employers. The National Association of Colleges and Employers cites teamwork as one of the eight career readiness competencies, and here at WPI, we prioritize teamwork. It's actually one of our undergraduate learning outcomes. We want our graduates to leave here with the essential collaboration skills that they're gonna need for the rest of their lives.

Cain: Anne, and even though some of us might grumble about the idea of a team project, teamwork can be really rewarding, right? 

Ogilvie: Yes, it can be really rewarding. I think teamwork can be daunting. You only need to watch a reality competition show like Project Runway, right? And they- 

Cain: I love those shows.

Ogilvie: And they announce, "This week, it's the team challenge."

And all the contestants go, "No." Right, right. Right? They really- 

Cain: I see the reaction. 

Ogilvie: Um, you know, no one wants to compromise their vision. No one wants to have to do what other people, uh, may want to do instead of what they want to do. We, we know that we may not always be the most excited to be told that we have to do a project, and we have to do it as a team, but the benefits of the collaboration are well-known. We know, you know, there's the old adage that many hands make light work, right? So we can get more work done together, but it's, it's much more than that. It's about how it feels to work together with other people towards a common goal. That sense of being able to depend on one another, this idea that we can take risks with one another, that we can even fail with these people, that we can try new things, that we can be curious together. This is what leads to innovation. So if the team is safe for this interpersonal risk-taking, if there is a sense of trust and psychological safety, there can be tremendous benefits. It can increase our creativity, propel us forward, and it also just gives us this great sense of satisfaction to be able to accomplish things together as a team, both in the academic setting and in the real world.

Cain: So Anne, why do you think some teams struggle to find a way to work well together? 

Ogilvie: Well, I think all teams struggle. Some teams struggle a little bit, and some teams struggle a lot, and teams have a whole range of different challenges. A lot of issues that come up in teams are just related to our own styles and preferences for how we do work. When we do work alone, if I'm gonna leave my work to the last minute and stay up really late to get it done and turn it in exactly at the time that it's due, this impacts me, and it doesn't impact anyone else. But if I'm on a team and I try to do this, and I'm working with people who like to get things done a couple days before and leave ample time for revision, then this is a problem. So we see, you know, very basic work style preferences. I like to work in a place that is really loud, where my teammate might need a lot of quiet in order to do their best thinking and writing. I like to stay up late. They like to get up early. So just some of these really simple, um, aspects of our own preferences for how we do our work come up in teamwork, and they can cause friction. And they can also just make it difficult for teams to decide when to do the work and how to do the work. We know that there's strength in diverse teams. We know that in industry, it's been shown that diversity is a real strength in teams. It brings more ideas to the table. It positively impacts the bottom line. It positively impacts employee engagement. It impacts employee retention when people get to work in diverse teams. It brings better ideas to the table. But when we are working across difference and encountering difference of all kinds, it can be really challenging. So here at WPI, our students are interacting across lots of differences: their own identities, their cultural backgrounds, their upbringing, neurodiversity, and all the experiences that they've had prior to coming to WPI. They also have differences in how they face deadlines. What does it mean to produce quality work? How to have difficult conversations, whether you should even have a difficult conversation, and then how do you navigate the conflict? And we also just know that college life is challenging, right? This is a time of tremendous change in our students' lives. They've come here, they're living away from home, they have a lot of pressures academically, and they're thinking about their futures, and then we're asking them to do a, a pretty complex and demanding task. I hear from our students that it's a powerful experience, go through all of the steps of the project work and to face the struggles, right? Because there will be struggles. Like, we don't do projects in teams because it is easy. We do it because it will be difficult. Sometimes it may be just a little difficult. Sometimes it can be very difficult, both navigating whatever the topic of the project is, but also working together with one another. The collaboration itself can be where the challenge is. But again, this is by design because we cannot learn and grow if we don't have some element of productive struggle. 

Cain: So there's a lot of factors that, that go into this and a lot that individuals have to juggle and then the teams themselves have to work through. Um, and I'm looking forward to exploring some more with you on some of the ways to overcome those things. But I wanted to ask, what are the types of projects that our students do at WPI, and how does that give them experience working in teams? 

Ogilvie: About 50 years ago, WPI reorganized around something called the WPI Plan and dedicated, uh, the institution to project-based learning. So our students have to complete three projects in order to graduate, and they typically do this in the sophomore, junior, and senior year. Because of this adoption of project-based learning on kind of a grand scale, project-based learning now permeates our curriculum. So you're not just getting projects and teamwork in the major projects required for graduation, you're getting it in your classes and you're getting it in your labs as well. So there's a, a lot of collaboration happening on a regular basis. We also have a first-year class that is focused on the great problems of the world. It's called the Great Problems Seminar, and in this first-year class, students can jump right in to college doing project work and teamwork. WPI also has something called the Global Projects Program, which allows students to do any of the projects required for graduation off campus at one of our global project centers. So we are doing projects, we are doing teamwork in the projects, and then sometimes we're even taking these projects and we are situating them off campus in Worcester or around the world in 50 or more different locations in a community setting. And so our students are navigating teamwork, as in the team itself, also navigating how to work with an external sponsor, which is a very real-world pre-professional experience, and they're situated within a wider community and often working with that wider community during the course of a project. So this is a very complex thing we're asking them to do, provides a lot of that productive struggle that we talked about earlier, develops a lot of those teamwork skills. The students complete their IQP, Interactive Qualifying Project, and they leave with teamwork and collaboration skills that they can then apply to their senior project, which is focused in the student's major discipline.

Cain: Yeah, there's so many opportunities for WPI students to get that experience working in teams, and if folks are interested in learning more about any of the three required projects for graduation, we'll have a link in the show notes to each of the project descriptions. We should mention that one of those three projects explores the arts and humanities, which really speaks to the breadth of the types of experiences that students get the opportunity to, um, to work in teams on.

Ogilvie: Jon, I just wanted to mention that if anyone is interested in the breadth of projects that are done here at WPI, one of the great places you can go to learn more about that is the Gordon Library website. They can check out all of our student projects on Digital WPI through that website. 

Cain: That's such a good point. I really enjoy going to that website and just searching by keyword sometimes to see what have our students done in this area of study, and it comes up with so many different things, and you can read their full reports and see the names of who did what in what year and what type of project it was. And we'll add that as a link to the show notes as well so that people can check out that cool resource.

Ogilvie: Yeah, you can also search by geography, so you can find out where, where we are and what we've done there. 

Cain: Anne, with all that said, we're not just throwing students in teams and, and hoping for the best. I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about some of the supports that are available to our students to help prepare them for team projects and to help them navigate any challenges that inevitably are going to arise.

Ogilvie: So we're very fortunate to have faculty on campus who are attuned to teamwork and who prepare the students very well for the project work that they're going to do. We also have a very unique resource on campus called the SWEET Center. This resource came about kind of organically, uh, with ideas coming up both through the faculty, through student support services, and through students themselves, of an idea that there should be a place where you can talk about teamwork, where you're not having to go necessarily to the person who's grading you.

Cain: Mm. 

Ogilvie: That we're asking students to do a difficult thing, and we're asking them to take some interpersonal risks as part of their team, and that having an impartial place, an informal place to go to talk about whatever's coming up could be more supportive than doing that through their professor who's grading them, because they might be afraid that if they're struggling in their teamwork, that could affect their grade. I can actually assure students that would not be the case, that faculty do understand that student teams may struggle, that they expect teams to struggle. The students don't need to hide this from their faculty, but we notice there's a barrier there from the students themselves. Mm-hmm. The SWEET Center was started about six years ago, actually just as the pandemic kind of got fully underway. There had been ideas for starting something like the SWEET Center, and then with the pandemic, we felt a lot of pressure to provide additional resources to students who were now all of a sudden all around the world collaborating through Zoom over great distances on projects that were supposed to be happening all in one place and live. So we moved very quickly to take this kind of nascent idea of a center for collaboration and implement it during the pandemic. And we started to provide consultations to teams who were engaged in project work around the world, in front of their computers in their own homes, but working together. And now, six years later, we have a thriving program. We offer all kinds of resources to students and to faculty. We have office hours during the course of a week where you can come to a physical location, the SWEET Center. We're located in the bottom floor of the Project Center right off of the fountain. 

Cain: Can you talk a little bit about who's doing the work in the SWEET Center and who's helping the student teams?

Ogilvie: We're really fortunate that the majority of this work is done by our SWEET Fellows. We have a SWEET Fellowship program. These are students who have already done some project work at WPI. They have experience collaborating and working in teams through their academics, often through other leadership activities as well on campus. We do a training course that's 16 hours in length that students take, and by the end of it, they are familiar with leading these consultative conversations, understanding how to facilitate some difficult conversations for other students, and are able to offer tools and advice for the teams that come into the SWEET Center that are seeking help. I've found that our SWEET Fellows, because they are also students, they are very, very good at getting to the bottom of things that happen on teams. They are willing to ask questions, uh, they are willing to listen, and they're willing to engage with the students as the students think through what they want to do to improve what's happening on their particular team.

Cain: You know, when I first heard about the SWEET Center, I was like, "Oh my gosh, how come everybody doesn't have this?" I'm wondering what types of, um, activities or programs are you running to help, um, student teams? 

Ogilvie: We have a whole suite of offerings at the SWEET Center. 

Cain: I see what you did there. 

Ogilvie: We do team and individual consultations around teamwork, so students can come to us for just a one-on-one conversation, check-in. We also do these via Zoom, so if you are at the Copenhagen Project Center or the New Zealand Project Center, you can phone in and we will help answer your questions. So we do those individual conversations. We also do team consultations, so if a team is struggling with some particular aspect of their teamwork, they can come to us, and they can get assistance in working out whatever is going on. Sometimes this is as simple as a single conversation. The team actually knows what they need to talk about, but they would just like some facilitation of that conversation, a little bit of a, like, backstop, uh, someone to help them engage in a process that's gonna be constructive for the team. And sometimes the engagement is a little bit longer. We have two different sessions. We talk with every member of the team briefly, individually, and then once we understand kind of what's happening on that team, we bring the whole team back together, and we really take a forward-looking approach where we focus on what are the shared goals of this team for this project, and what are they going to do together to support those goals?

And then we help the team form specific agreements around what they will do and what they won't do for the remainder of their collaboration. And we take notes, and we put together a report, and then we provide that report to the teams, and it can become a roadmap for the team to follow to carry out the rest of their project. In addition to team and individual consultations, we also work with faculty and partner with them in their classes to deliver workshops on team dynamics. We also offer team facilitation sessions for different courses, working with students who are engaged in collaboration and who are also engaged in learning to do collaboration well. So, we will meet with students as a team after the first major assignment in a project. So we can check in. How did it go for you all as you wrote the background chapter? What did you learn? How did your plan go? Do you wanna change that plan going forward? How would you like to do things differently for the next major assignment? In these conversations, we're just facilitating the team to have that conversation, and it sometimes can be very helpful to have a trained facilitator guide that conversation. It's not that those conversations can't happen organically in a team setting, but when you have someone who has the training to lead those conversations, it can be easier for the team to jump in and engage.

Cain: Um, I'm wondering if the help that the SWEET Center provide kind of falls into a few different categories, or are there a few different tracks that you're, um, sort of set up to help, uh, folks with? 

Ogilvie: Yes, I think about this in terms of proactive and reactive support. So we know that there is a lot that you can do to set teams up for success, so we spend time on that. We spend time doing faculty development around that, sharing ideas around how do you set teams up for success in their collaboration, and we have a lot of tools that we use to support that, things that students can get directly from our website and use themselves, and things that some faculty have adopted and use in their courses. We also have what I would call reactive supports, which is, you know, something is going wrong on our team and we need some help. We'd like to have a conversation with someone to try to get to the bottom of this, to try to resolve this so that we can move forward with more productive collaboration. And I think both of those kinds of support are really important. We really want to be here for students as they're going through these teamwork experiences. We know that they are growing their skills, and this can be an uncomfortable place. 

Cain: So Anne, let's dive in a little bit and talk about some of the tools that you've mentioned. What are some of the tools that you use in the SWEET Center to help teams plan for how they'll work together or work through those difficulties once they've popped up?

Ogilvie: A lot of the most important parts of teamwork happen at the very beginning. We're just getting to know one another. We may have a vague idea of what this project is that we're gonna undertake together, and I guess here it's really important for me to point out a lot of the work that we do on projects at WPI is authentic, which means that there is not an answer already known. They're creating the project as they go, so there's a lot of ambiguity. Things that teams can do at the very beginning are the-- we have tools like asset mapping. This is one of our favorite tools to use. This tool was actually created by Professors Lisa Stoddard and Geoff Pfeifer, and it, it originated in our Great Problem Seminar course as a way to help teams understand one another and to help individuals understand their own strengths that they bring to any given project. That's kind of the beauty of the asset map, is you're taking a 360-degree look at your background, your skills, your competencies, the courses you've taken, the other experiences that you have that make up your whole self, and through drawing those, really trying to consider the full range of your strengths and abilities. And then sharing that with everyone on the team so that this is not invisible, right? So, that now people on your team also understand what you bring to the table, and now you can understand and make decisions about how you're going to apportion work. And there are different strategies for this. Sometimes you might need to get work done quickly, and depending on what you're trying to learn, you might assign tasks on a project based on someone's strengths and abilities. So you need to get the writing done quickly, and maybe the goal of this is not for everyone to learn how to write really well, although that's probably always an important goal. So maybe you assign the best writers to do the writing. You might have some CAD, design work that's necessary, and if that's not part of the important learning for the course, maybe you just put the person on the CAD design work that already knows how to do that. Now, if it is a CAD design course, maybe you want to give people who have lower skills in that area the chance to do more of that work so they can build their skills. So, the asset map is a great tool both for seeing yourself and seeing yourself grow, 'cause you can check your asset map and add to it every year and really see the growth. And the asset map is good 'cause it helps everyone on the team understand the diversity of skills and abilities on the team and then that can figure into the assignment of the tasks for the project.

Cain: Yeah, I got to try out an asset map as part of the preparation for this podcast episode, and I really enjoyed the experience. 

Ogilvie: Yeah, you discover things that you might never have known about your teammates through the asset mapping. So, this is a wonderful activity to engage in at the start because starting to know one another is really the foundation of all the teamwork that is to come. Asset mapping is something that any team can do. You don't have to do it as part of a course or a project. It doesn't have to be formally assigned to you. It's something that any student, uh, can initiate on their team, and it's a great activity to kick off that teamwork. 

Cain: And we'll have a link to, um, some of the asset mapping tools, um, that are on the SWEET Center website. We'll link to those in the show notes so people can check those out. And as we're talking, I should mention that we're, uh, recording this conversation during the heart of campus move-in, so if you hear any background noise, that's some of the, uh, activity that's going as students set up their, uh, rooms in their residence halls. Um, Anne, do you wanna talk about some of the other, uh, tools that you have available at the SWEET Center? 

Ogilvie: One of the tools we really like to promote is the team charter. A team charter is an agreement that the people on the team make at the very beginning of their collaboration. They agree on the goals for the collaboration, and they agree on the processes that they're gonna use to carry out this work together. This can discuss things like how often they're going to meet, where they're going to meet, what their agenda is going to consist of, how they are going to assign tasks. It can use information from the asset map in the team charter to define how people are going to do the work in order to focus on the skills that they wish to grow. So, a team charter can be very simple or it can be more complicated and specific depending on the members of the team. We have a template on our website that students are welcome to use, and we really encourage the use of a team charter in every teamwork collaboration on campus. And it's very useful to revisit the team charter. We try to remind students, you don't wanna make the charter and then put it in a file and forget it forever. Uh, the point of the charter is to bring it out after that first major assignment and to check in. Did we do the things we said we were going to do? Did this process work? How should we change it going forward? We say that the charter is really a living document. It's meant to be checked in on. It's meant to be updated. It's meant to constantly be changed to fit the work and to support the team as they do their work. Another tool I'd like to mention is the team processing sheet. This is there for teams when they want to have the conversation about how things are going. It offers a large range of questions the team can ask and answer, either individually or together, to try just to get at how is this team performing right now? How do we all feel about this team, and how would we like to see the team change in this next part of our collaboration together? 

Cain: Are there certain points that you recommend teams go through, um, a team processing exercise?

Ogilvie: Well, I think you can do it after a major assignment. It would be particularly useful at the halfway point as well. So if you have a semester-long project, then maybe at the term mark. If you have a term-long project, then maybe you wanna do it midterm. 

Cain: Well, these are great resources, and coming up in our next episode on the WPI Podcast, we're gonna bring in a PhD student, Lydia Ellen Tonani-Penha. She's one of the SWEET Center fellows that works with teams, and we're gonna explore more in depth the asset mapping resource that you mentioned, and it's something I think any team can really benefit from, so I invite folks to stick around for that. Anne, so between the individual meetings and the team consultations, you're gathering a ton of information, uh, when you're meeting with teams and the individual members of teams. What do you do with that information? Are you and the fellows prescribing solutions, or do you encourage the teams to use that information to sort of figure it out on their own and come up with their own strategies for better teamwork? 

Ogilvie: Uh, there is a balance. We are more often listening and helping teams uncover their own preferred strategies, but we do have some things that we are more prescriptive on. We are definitely gonna ask you how often your team is meeting and what those meetings consist of. Are they in person? What's getting discussed? And we're gonna probably encourage you to meet more if you're not seeing very much of your teammates. So there are things like that that we just know improves the collaboration, and there are some tools that we might suggest that could help your team depending on what you're struggling with. But a lot of what we do is listen. We're listening to the experience of the students on the team. We are trying, if we need to, to connect those students to different resources on campus that may be helpful to them. We are sometimes redirecting that team to go back and talk with the professor about what is going on. That's a frequent thing that we might suggest. But we're also listening to what the team thinks could improve that collaboration. That's actually a question we ask every single team. What do you think could improve your collaboration at this point? What do you need to do? And then we listen to what they have to say, and in our final discussion with the team consultation, the team is actually making the decisions about what actions to take next. So, we are looking for the team to take ownership over the collaboration and for the team to decide, all right, given everything that's happened and everything we need to do, what do we focus on now, and how do we do that? Uh, I think it's those agreements around the work and around the process of the work that are really, really important.

Cain: That's fascinating. What are you hearing from WPI students about all the different team project experiences that they're accumulating during their time at WPI? What's the feedback you're, you're getting after the fact? 

Ogilvie: We love hearing from students about the results of their teamwork experiences. Most of what we hear is that the interaction with the SWEET Center gave them some agency to do some things differently on their team. It prompted them to talk differently with their teammates, and it prompted them to see their teammates a little bit differently. So through the consultation process, understanding a little bit more about what different teammates were going through, what challenges they might be facing, what their preferences and styles were, and how they were balancing those in the context of this group work, it actually changes the way people see their teammates. And it also changed the way the team saw the challenges they were facing, gave them an opportunity to reconsider how to overcome those challenges, and to come up with, on their own, suggestions for how to do that and try them out. So I think there's a lot of exploration in the consultation process that then happens within the team and results in better teamwork. After working with the SWEET Center, students say things like, "My team learned things that helped us to overcome our challenges," or, "I learned how I could be a better teammate." That one's particularly powerful to me because I think a lot of working in a team is about self-discovery, is about learning about how you work together with other people. And so when our students stumble on that and realize, like, "Ah, I could do something differently, and that could change how this team is functioning," that's a powerful aha moment. We also have seen that students are more likely to raise concerns with their teammates after meeting with the Sweet Center. I think a lot of times people are on teams, and they have an idea, and they sit on it. They're uncomfortable. They're not quite sure they should express it. Maybe it's not a very good idea. Maybe somebody else has a better idea. But if we can improve the communication on the team, people are more willing to take risks, put their ideas forward, and of course, the project work is so much richer because of that. We get much better results when people on the team are actually participating instead of holding back.

Cain: So, I'm wondering if we can pull out just a little bit, maybe if someone's listening, they're not a student, maybe they're out in the working world right now. And if you're one of those folks and you're struggling with teamwork, or maybe you're on a team and it's not operating like a finely tuned machine, do you have any advice to offer for how that person might be able to overcome some of the frequent challenges to effective teamwork, sort of outside of an academic, uh, atmosphere?

Ogilvie: Yes, we're all in this situation sometimes. I think we can pay attention to how we start teamwork. I really think it's important to get to know your team members. Sometimes this is just as simple as going out for boba tea. It's pizza. It's ice cream. It's enjoying something together and getting to know one another as individuals because that sets the stage for more productive collaboration. I think we can also do, um, some self-searching here. We can really try to understand our own styles and preferences and how we would like to communicate those to other people. We can also know- what we're good at, our strengths. We can know our personal challenges that, you know, are we always a little bit late? Do we wanna disclose that maybe to the team? Maybe we're continuing to try to work on it, but if we have some perennial challenges, these are good things to talk about. We can also talk about our pet peeves. As we start our collaborations, we can talk with our teammates about what has worked well in the past and what has not worked well in the past, and then use that in a team charter discussion to try to set a path of productive collaboration at the very beginning. I think if I have one big thing to suggest to anyone on a team, though, it's to make sure that you are communicating with your team members. I think oftentimes, uh, we choose to cope, we choose to not discuss things. And so I really encourage people to try to develop the skills to have difficult conversations themselves, and then to employ those skills within your teamwork so that you can try to address things that are coming up in the teamwork, as well as develop processes that enable everyone on the team to be contributing and having input to make sure that all the ideas are getting shared and that you're having the richest experience of collaboration as possible.

Cain: Really great advice. So Anne, I wanna give you the chance to sort of, uh, leave us with some, a final message, and, and I think maybe a good question for this might be if a student is listening to this right now and they know that they're going into a team project that they are worried that they might struggle with or maybe they're in a project that they're struggling with, what do you recommend that student do if they're hearing this and, and, uh, they're not sure whether they should, uh, sort of take action?

Ogilvie: I want them to get in touch with us. I really want them to reach out to the SWEET Center. We are here for you as students. We are here to listen. There's no obligation once you talk to us to do anything. Uh, you can just talk and we're happy to listen. I also wanna underscore the point that the SWEET Center is a private conversation, so no one else will know that you talk with us. We will not talk to your professor unless you ask us to talk to your professor, and we're kind of happy to perform some diplomacy if need be. But for all intents and purposes, this is a private conversation that you can engage in where you can talk through some of the things that might, you might be facing and get a little bit of advice or just propose your own ideas and get some feedback about that. So we are here for you, and we really look forward to supporting you in your teamwork journey here at WPI. 

Cain: Well, Anne, it's been really great talking with you about all things teamwork, and I think we've, uh, hopefully empowered some folks with a lot of good information about, um, how to approach their team projects and their team challenges. So, um, thanks so much for sharing all of this information with us here on the WPI podcast. 

Ogilvie: Great. Thank you so much, Jon. It was great to talk teams with you. 

Cain: Anne Ogilvie is the director for team learning in the Global School at Worcester Polytechnic Institute, and she leads WPI's SWEET Center. If you wanna learn more about teamwork, I invite you to stay tuned for our next episode. SWEET Center fellow and WPI PhD student Lydia Ellen Tonani-Penha will be here. She'll walk us through all the elements of a team asset mapping exercise so you can hear how they work. I'm excited to talk with her because she's got a pretty cool perspective on teamwork since she got her bachelor's degree and her master's degree here at WPI with a lot of team projects along the way. And don't forget to check out the show notes for links to a lot of what we talked about today and to learn more about project-based learning at WPI. You can follow the WPI podcast wherever you get your podcasts. You'll also find us on wpi.edu/listen. This podcast is produced at the WPI Global Lab in the Innovation Studio. My thanks to PhD candidate Varun Bhat for the audio engineering help on today's episode. Please join us next time for another episode of The WPI Podcast. I'm Jon Cain. Talk to you soon